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Streamr- Henri Pihkala



[00:00:00] So many people remember BitTorrent from back in the day, which was kind of peer to peer file sharing thing. So you could think of streamer. Kind of like BitTorrent, but for data streams, data that is constantly in motion instead of exchanging files that are static

[00:00:26] today, I am pleased to have. The screamer network streamer network, which is based in duke and Switzerland is the backbone infrastructure for companies and people to automatically share data in real time and to be paid for it. And this episode, we will talk about what it takes to build a decentralized network, how to incentivize people to join it and how you measure de-centralized.

[00:00:49] Welcome Henry. Thanks a lot. Thanks for having me great to be here. It's for people who don't know, describe what streamer network is, uh, what it's trying to do, how it works. [00:01:00] Yeah, absolutely. So the stream or network is a decentralized protocol for sharing real time. Basically, it's kind of like WhatsApp or the back end of WhatsApp, but for machines and applications, you can have kind of private chats channels where there's one too many broadcasting.

[00:01:19] So basically it's like a protocol for broadcasting information. Uh, you send a message and it goes to everyone who subscribes, uh, to the, uh, to those streams. And traditionally this is done via having a central. Message broker, for example, like a cloud service, you know, and how they work is that everyone connects to the same server or same point and it kind of works.

[00:01:44] But of course it's not very scalable because everyone needs to connect to the same place and it's not very secure against attacks. It exposes your data to whoever runs it and so on. So the aspect of decentralization is very important. Because it makes [00:02:00] the, that kind of shape of data traffic work without any central point and without any middleman.

[00:02:08] And this is very useful in a variety of different use cases, especially ones where there are multiple stakeholders who have kind of trouble agreeing on a single point where they could exchange data. Right? So this kind of protocol establishes like a neutral ground. Where, uh, everyone can join in because it's open source.

[00:02:33] It's owned by no one and everyone at the same time, it doesn't come with any kind of vendor lock in. And so on, many parties can interact over this data protocol without putting their business into trouble. And that's where the value I think that comes from. Okay, great. Thank you very much. Yeah, you've described it.

[00:02:51] Well, it's a bit of a WhatsApp, but WhatsApp for data and for real-time data. Yeah. Right. Another way that is sometimes good for people to [00:03:00] understand. So we're talking about data sharing, right. But not sharing of files, rather data streams. So many people remember BitTorrent from back in the day, which was kind of peer to peer file sharing thing.

[00:03:12] So you could think of streamer as kind of like BitTorrent, but. Data streams, uh, data that is constantly in motion instead of exchanging files that are static a few examples. What kind of data would you see being exchanged like data for cars, uh, relating to traffic to have, or can you have a few of them?

[00:03:35] Right. So the technology itself is very generic, so it can be used in many different use cases and it's kind of like. Swiss army knife, if you, if you will. But some of the use cases we are seeing is for example, like web behavior data that can be crowdsourced, which is a new kind of business model that can be created on top of this kind of technology.

[00:03:58] Of course, the usual. [00:04:00] Uh, connected devices like cars, IOT, sensors, that kind of stuff. This is very suitable for a health type of data is becoming more and more in the center. I think because data is kind of sensitive. Uh, and it's been very hard to utilize that kind of data with traditional means. 'cause you always kind of have to give control over the data to someone else.

[00:04:24] If you want to distribute or exchange that data. But with this kind of protocol you can overcome. Problems, uh, by, by doing peer to peer transport of the data. So there's a couple of projects looking into medical data. I think there's a lot of space for innovation because new kind of business models and new types of applications and activities become available with this kind of thing.

[00:04:53] Great before we get into the company, I would like to know a little bit more about you as a child. Were you always into [00:05:00] programming? That's right. Uh, I've always been a bit of a nerd. I started programming when I was six years old, so it's been a kind of long, a long track to come to this. I started my career in, uh, in basically e-commerce and freelancing a little bit and doing that kind of stuff.

[00:05:19] But then I got super interested, uh, about data at some point, and that happened in the financial sector. So I have a kind of algorithmic trading background where I was creating. Platforms and, uh, models and algorithms for trading. So basically machines buying and selling stocks. So not crypto at the time.

[00:05:41] Right. But just traditional stocks on a stock, a stock exchange, and was doing that for a while. Then I became entrepreneurs. Uh, that's already like 10, 11 years ago. It started, uh, some of our first companies with Nick and my co-founder, who is also also co-founder at streamer. First one [00:06:00] was a trading thing.

[00:06:01] And then there was this kind of a centralized data platform that I mentioned earlier. And then we kind of gravitate. To the decentralized space from there. So that's maybe my brief brief history. And along the way I realized, okay, real-time data has value. First of all, like it needs to go, you know, there's value to other people from the data.

[00:06:27] And there was not any kind of data monetization happening in the grand scheme of team. Things in finance, there was, and in trading because every trade. Uh, is seeking to get an edge on the market by having superior data, right. And superior insights from that data. So kind of the financial sector has figured this out and had been figuring it out since the eighties, when the stocks stock exchanges started to kind of digitalize.

[00:06:55] But in all other business verticals, the value of data [00:07:00] was very unknown and the businesses were clueless about how to make use of this data. Um, and then people started talking about big data and analytics and everything was still. Kind of, uh, siloed, um, and static data heavy, but I think it's starting to open up the silos are starting to crumble.

[00:07:24] Companies are starting to see that the value of data can be maximized by not hoarding it to yourself and keeping it like, you know, keeping your cards close to your chest, but rather than. Making things available for others and like this, you can scale up the value of the data and monetize it many, many times by, um, by, um, by sharing it.

[00:07:48] I think the world is very much changing in this, in this respect. Okay. And so getting back to streamer, I think you raise money in 2019, the best year ever to raise money [00:08:00] and you raised 30 million through an ICO. It was 2017 and you're, you're living off of that. Now you still, you still have a good, a good reserves and good run room with without do you.

[00:08:10] When we started off in 2017, we made a roadmap and we kind of figured that, okay, this will take five years. To build what we want to build. It's quite an ambitious infrastructure project. So we were quite certain that, okay, it's not going to be easy. It's not going to be cheap and it's not going to be fast.

[00:08:31] Right. So, so we raised 30 million, uh, in 2017, late, late 2017. And now we are more than halfway through. So, so there's three big milestones. We're now at the middle milestone of that. We've come like over the biggest hump for sure. Called Brubeck. And then I think the final milestone will come out next year and that would actually keep us very well in the original [00:09:00] planned scheduled.

[00:09:02] And that concludes the original ICO roadmap. Whereas of course the project will then continue, uh, own words from that. But that kind of marks then the 1.0 version of streamer in the sense that it then corresponds to the vision that we had in the beginning. Right? Three milestones. Yeah. So the first milestone called Korea was kind of like a centralized version of.

[00:09:28] Of streamer. So the message passing in there. Work, but all the nodes were still run by us. So people weren't able to join in and run their own nodes in the network. Rather they'd have to connect the applications that want to publish and subscribe to data to nodes that we have. Uh, industry my team. And now in this brew back milestone, which is super important because for the first time people can run stream or nodes, they can actually download the software, [00:10:00] use that node as a kind of poor dollars to all the data, uh, in this data fabric, this global data fabric.

[00:10:09] Right. And that's very exciting. And then the final milestone coming next year, we'll add token economics. Uh, on the network layer as well, which means that people can kind of support the streams of others by contributing their bandwidth to the network and earn tokens by doing so kind of mind their bandwidth.

[00:10:31] Exactly. So you had your test in that one that went quite well. Where you at? I think 4,000 users. Now you're having your test net too. And from what I understand, you already have 20,000 nodes and you describe that. And then the role, I think you have a token. And what is the role of this, right, right, right.

[00:10:50] Okay. Two questions there. I'll answer the first one, uh, first. So yeah, we're going through these test nets at the moment, and those are incentivized Testnet. So [00:11:00] people who participate and run a node in the network, uh, can. Talking to rewards. And in the first test net, we had to put a cap on those first 4,000 nodes.

[00:11:10] But then we lifted it to 5,000 nodes because we had some stability problems. There were so many nodes trying to join the network that things were starting to go go hay wire. Uh, but that's, uh, that's a happy problem to have, of course. And it's the very purpose of the test nets to show us where, where things start to break down.

[00:11:30] Right. And now testing it to. It's coming. So we don't yet know what the participation in. There will be. People we don't know where we're going to open the flood gates, uh, today actually, and people will be able to connect their nodes to the new test net and that will run for a week. And then there's going to be a third one, uh, shortly after that as well.

[00:11:53] And there's a total. 2 million data tokens available as rewards for the test [00:12:00] participants. The value of that is of course changing every day with the very volatile crypto markets, but somewhere around 200,000, 300,000 in total dollars to be distributed to the two people while, while the current milestone doesn't yet have.

[00:12:16] The, uh, full token economics implemented. They come in the next milestone. We have kind of a next best thing, um, in this test net test nets, which is a much simpler process for kind of detecting what nodes are doing, work in the network and then rewarding them based on that. But that brings us to the function of the token.

[00:12:40] Right? So industry Marine ecosystem, the token is used for. For a couple of different things in different layers. So the lowest layer is the stream or network that we've been talking about. And in there, the idea for the token is that you can kind of pay into streams to kind of [00:13:00] get better quality of service for the, for the transport of data.

[00:13:03] You get kind of more stable stream topologies by, uh, attracting nodes to join, uh, your, your stream topology. So basically. Means is that if you have a stream or you want to support somebody else's stream, you put tokens in there and that will attract miners. So miners then run, uh, nodes, which we call broker nodes on their machines and they joined the stream, which means that they receive the data, but also.

[00:13:34] Help, uh, propagate the data across the network to others. So you're kind of getting, getting the message from one place and sending it to four other people. And by having these stable nodes participate in the industry, it becomes more reliable and handles tricky situations like churn, where nodes are leaving and coming and going all the time.

[00:13:59] [00:14:00] Topology. Uh, so this is kind of to simplify it or put it in one sentence, you can kind of contribute bandwidth to the network for the purpose of this data sharing that's going on in the network and by so doing, earn tokens in return. And there's also going to be a kind of staking and delegation possibilities.

[00:14:20] So if you're, if you're a token holder and. You, uh, don't want to run a node yourself. Uh, you can stick the tokens on somebody else's node and earn a share of the revenue. Uh, that node is, is earning. So it's kind of like similar to what you can do in the token mechanics of, for example, the graph or, or live peer that you have nodes that are run a service and earn tokens from that.

[00:14:50] And you can also do the delegation, but all of this is coming in the next milestone next year, but there's other uses for the token. It's a governance token. [00:15:00] So, uh, there's you know, you can vote on governance proposals regarding the stream or protocols. It's all the same token. There's one token. How many tokens are there?

[00:15:08] One, one token, just one token. The streamer date of token. And it's also used as a means of exchange on the higher levels of the streamer ecosystem. So if the stream or network is the transport layer, and then there's a marketplace application, for example, where access to data streams can be bought and sold and the data talk.

[00:15:30] And it's used as a means of exchange for that. And also there's another higher level framework, uh, also in the ecosystem called data. Yeah. A system where a large group of people can kind of join their data and sell it together. So for example, if there's a million people who have a certain kind of phone or use a certain application, or have a certain type of connected device or [00:16:00] whatever, they can source data from each individual, uh, kind of combine it into a data product.

[00:16:09] Uh, and a stream on the stream or network. And then when somebody buys it, the money can be shared, uh, among all the data providers. Right? So you can kind of, you can do revenue sharing at scale by tapping into this, into this mechanism that allows you to kind of earn with, uh, with your data together with others.

[00:16:33] So you could maybe look at the. Looking at the picture so that there's like a very low level technical kind of base and then various kind of tools and utilities that assist in entering the data economies, doing things like data, monetization, crowdsourcing, this kind of things that come on top one token that does government that allows you to [00:17:00] maybe sell your data to a data unit.

[00:17:03] Because somebody interested in data is not interested in just what Henry wants to know. He wants to know what everybody in doulas. So you sell your data to a data union and then you get paid for that. The token also serves if I understand correctly for if I need data, I have to pay for this data. Yes. So I can earn data tokens either by selling my own data or by providing bandwidth with a node.

[00:17:26] Is that. Yes. Yes. You mentioned earlier a minor. Why do we need a minor? Yeah. So the minor is the person who runs the note, but it's very different from what people may be traditionally think about, uh, when they hear mining. So we're not talking about proof of work mining like you have on Bitcoin or Ethereum, 1.0 or anything like that.

[00:17:47] It's just the act of running the node and participating in those incentives. You're going to get a fixed amount of tokens based on your bandwidth then in that case, is that what you're going to get? If you're a mom? Yeah. [00:18:00] It's not quite that simple. How it's going to work in the talk and economics is that the people who pay into those streams, they kind of set the boundary.

[00:18:08] So there's a kind of rate that can be earned by all those who mind that stream. So the money will be shared depending on how many. Nodes are participating in mining. It kind of activates a market mechanism that finds an equilibrium. So if there's a lot of money available, a lot of people will join until it's not profitable anymore.

[00:18:32] And then the, the market mechanism kind of, kind of works. But is there a fixed amount of tokens or does the token supply shrink and, ah, yes. So it's basically, it's an inflationary talk and nowadays it used to be a fixed to a hard cap, but, uh, the token holders voted to create an inflationary supply as well.

[00:18:56] So it's, it's a quite stable. Uh, [00:19:00] there's no ongoing inflation at the moment, but there's also not the final milestone, uh, available yet, but the token holders can decide whether they want to increase the supply for a particular purpose or not. And there's also a hard cap that cannot be exceeded kind of like a constitutional.

[00:19:20] It's an inflationary tall can with, with freedom to decide about the inflation. So it's not controlled by any particular person. And also not at the moment controlled by any presets mechanism. It's something that's kind of left flexible for future. Uh, you have described how a token incentive structure can incentivize people to scale the scale and network.

[00:19:43] Right? What have been the challenges you have faced up until now to, to scale a decentralized network? And what do you think the challenges will be going forward? I think the challenge has come from to two directions. There are technical challenges, and then there are kind of, let's say business [00:20:00] challenges, right?

[00:20:01] Uh, and the, the technical challenges, I think they are. They are the harder one, perhaps like it's, it's a very technical field where we are in data infrastructure and trying to achieve that kind of global scale where we can, our, our protocol would be able to do the same thing as they much, much simpler centralized approach would do, but in a decentralized way.

[00:20:28] So. Inventing a, not reinventing the wheel, but implementing a much, much better wheel, but it's still a wheel. So that's kind of hard. And the challenge there come from from security, of course, which is, uh, of utmost importance in these kind of things. And you have to set up things like end to end encryption and so on to keep the data secure as well as nailed.

[00:20:53] Uh, token economical models and the incentives and the proofs and stuff like that. [00:21:00] So there's plenty of work that has already happened there. And also some challenges still ahead in the technical area, then the other side of things, for sure, in terms of scaling out this technology is the business challenges, which aren't unique to streamer.

[00:21:16] They are of course, uh, kind of shared with the whole. Space and the decentralized decentralized space where there's a big mind shift that needs to happen for organizations to start adopting this kind of technology. And that's, I think something that's very difficult to accelerate, but on the other hand, it's definitely something that is happening.

[00:21:39] So we do see that the whole. World is super interested in decentralized technology and blockchain and crypto, but they, you know, they don't jump from, they don't go from square zero. To the end, like with a snap of the fingers, it takes time for them to learn and pilot [00:22:00] and research what this kind of technology can do for their business and so on and so on.

[00:22:05] So I think the business challenge for us, as well as others building in the crypto space will be to. Show, instead of tell what this technology can really do and what kind of new business models it can unlock. And we've seen a lot of that happen, of course, in the crypto space already in, you know, financial sector with, um, banks and central banks.

[00:22:32] Quite worried about crypto and DFI and seeing how traditional business models can be disrupted with this technology. And I think in the general web 3.0 or decentralized internet space and with data. Uh, self sovereignty of data, your control over data, your control over your own digital assets. And this change is, is also [00:23:00] happening.

[00:23:00] We have adoption mainly from two general directions. One is kind of grassroot level adoption coming mainly from the crypto space. So there's small teams or individuals that are innovating on this technology and building something from the ground. And then on the other hand, you have the enterprises, uh, and established businesses with existing user base has an existing data flows that are seeking for ways to either, uh, monetize data or do data sharing in a consortium or research.

[00:23:37] What kind of. New data sets could be sourced and stuff like this. Or just to give you a bit more background, maybe a little bit on how we ended up in this. So we actually, it's not the first data platform that we built. We built a previous one in 2014 to 2016, a centralized one, and there's also a real-time data [00:24:00] platform.

[00:24:00] And what we encountered was that any serious users. All of that technology, like let's say an enterprise company, they, they cannot really build their mission critical systems on top of. The platform that's developed by some small startup somewhere. Right. That's just not possible. There's too much vendor risk in that situation.

[00:24:27] But by creating an open source, a neutral software and protocol. Yeah. Not like a, it's not a product developed by a startup. It's rather an open source component that can be utilized by anyone in a neutral way. Even if the stream or team would disappear, you know, everyone dies in a plane crash or, or whatever the technology continues to exist.

[00:24:57] And the service continues to. [00:25:00] Work because it's not even run by us. And this was a big revelation that kind of brought us into the decentralized data space in 2016 to 2017, uh, realizing that these can actually fully mitigate the risks of, um, of vendors. And for, for enterprises. And that's what originally got us excited about this, this trajectory that we started on.

[00:25:28] Yeah, certainly while you've just made the case for open source software. And I think the world has now realized that most people want to go to open source software and open source projects. The only missing piece. That we still needed, which is what you're doing is like if we take, I think the example of a BitTorrent BitTorrent is a great decentralized network, but thing is there's no direct incentive to share files.

[00:25:52] Uh, you, you might not have enough people sharing their files. So we need to give some sort of an incentive to people. To [00:26:00] participate in the network. And of course the first great example of that was Bitcoin, but Bitcoin is a different type of thing than what you're doing. It's how easy it is to read, to run a node because some people will criticize, for example, Ethereum or others saying, oh, running a node is so heavy that in fact, It becomes centralized because not everybody can run one.

[00:26:18] Whereas if running a node is light and easy in terms of servers and how much disc space you need. And so on, then many more people will run it. So it's running a node of the streamer network, relatively lightening. Yeah. Th the note is relatively light compared to an Ethereum node, for example, and especially compared to something like Bitcoin mining or whatever, that the note doesn't really require.

[00:26:42] A lot of CPU, it doesn't require a lot of storage. What it does require is basically stability and bandwidth. So if you want to do a kind of stream or mining at scale, uh, further, uh, in the next milestone, when, when that [00:27:00] becomes kind of fully available, then you're basically only limited by. By the bandwidth that, uh, that you can contribute to the network in a stable way.

[00:27:10] So if you compare to an Ethereum node, for example, running, it is difficult because it uses a lot of desk. It needs to maintain the state of the whole blockchain on every node. Um, and that just doesn't happen on the stream or networks. The only, only function that the broken nodes do on the stream or network is.

[00:27:31] Receive data from some peers and send it out to two other peers to help the data propagate through the network. And that's pretty much it, so it can run on quite small devices. Like you can run it on a raspberry PI or other small, uh, small form factor computers and so on. And so on. Of course it does require some technical skill to just be able to.

[00:27:57] Start it and set it up and [00:28:00] maintain it, keep it updated and so on. It's definitely a different, uh, different order of magnitude, easier than running a theorem node, or especially doing Bitcoin mining that requires like specialized hardware and everything. You have nothing like that. In the case of streamer.

[00:28:19] And I don't understand how to streamer tend to run a, go make money. How do you tend to make a profit or is it simply by accumulating nodes? And you're not a for-profit. Yeah, so we are purely in token economy, business model. So the company holds a amount of tokens. And what we're trying to do is to create value for the tokens by creating a valuable ecosystem.

[00:28:44] Right? So we're not the traditional title. Business that is looking for revenue. So we're purely in the, in the value creation game. If these are somehow adds different opposite ends of the, of the [00:29:00] spectrum. Thank you. Now, one last question. Um, before we get into more personal or the rapid fire questions, Jack Dorsey from Twitter has said that he's looking to make Twitter, a decentralized company.

[00:29:15] Does he have any idea how he's going to do that? Yeah, I think he has more ideas than he perhaps tells for sure. I know how I would do it. And Twitter is actually a good example because it's all about real time. Right. Somebody tweets, it gets sent to the followers and to the rest of the network. So actually one could build a decentralized Twitter, uh, on top of the stream or protocol.

[00:29:43] It's one of the classic use cases for, for streamer actually. So if Jack Dorsey is listening to this, then, uh, you know, maybe he gets in, he gets in touch. So that's how I would approach that from a technology point of view. I'm not sure [00:30:00] what he means by turning Twitter, into decentralized company a is he seeking to, for example, make more Dow style decision-making in the company.

[00:30:13] Is he perhaps planning to tokenize the platform? I don't know, but those are very. Interesting thoughts, I think, and he's a visionary, uh, visionary in, uh, in that space. And he seems to be getting a lot deeper and deeper into the crypto space. So I think. C a new crypto visionary getting born there. Let's see.

[00:30:39] Yeah, I certainly agree. I think the key will be again, like we spoke before the token structure, because there's no doubt that people are lazy and they're always going to use the thing with the easiest user interface and the one with the least clicks and the one that's easiest. And who does the best user interface?

[00:30:56] It's a centralized company. That's trying to do this for a profit. [00:31:00] They make the best use of. And then they give it to you for free, which makes it even more attractive because they take your data and sell your data. So the point is how do we make a great slick and easy user interface, but we don't do it from a centralized company point of view.

[00:31:17] And that's, that's where we're going to, in my opinion, because when I speak to crypto anarchists, when you listen to them, in fact, what they want is anonymity and decentralization. And the boat are a little bit related anonymity. We can do that to a certain extent through cryptography and decentralization is a little bit more difficult, but token economics, hopefully we'll get there.

[00:31:40] We'll get there. Okay. Finally, a few rapid fire questions for you. Best advice you ever got and who gave it to you? Oh, man, I've got such a lot of good and bad advice.

[00:31:56] I have some good advice that I just remembered. [00:32:00] It actually came from my co-founder Nika and this was leadership advice and he's actually much older than me and I'm kind of young guy to be leading a company. So I've received. Probably good and bad advice from him, but one good advice was like, uh, related to decision-making perhaps.

[00:32:17] So, so stream are kind of attempts to be maybe some kind of democratic community that everyone has a voice in the team and so on, but on the other hand, making democratic decisions is very difficult, uh, because everyone's opinion is differing and how to resolve this, uh, was advice that I got from Nika that, um, a good leader.

[00:32:39] Carefully listened to everyone's opinion, uh, and then decide right. As simple as it sounds, it's quite difficult to do in practice in a way that everyone feels that they really got hurt, uh, with, even in the case that the decision [00:33:00] was different from what their opinion was. Um, and I think this is a tricky, tricky leadership question.

[00:33:07] Um, And, but the rule of thumb is it's useful in that one. Okay. Somebody you would admire very much in history and why? Yeah. I have to say I'm more interested in the future than the history. So maybe this is like a boring answer, but, uh, one person that I, uh, who, whose actions I follow at. Draw inspiration from is Elon Musk.

[00:33:36] Um, and I'm sure many people feel the same way. And you know, you can write me off as a Musk fan boy or whatever. I don't mind because, because I actually am. Um, so, you know, I think. Achieved amazing things. He somehow managed to, uh, steer multiple companies at the same time while, while starting a family and, and everything.[00:34:00]

[00:34:00] So definitely like a modern day Superman in many ways and an inspiration to many. Yeah. I have to admit if you just look at him superficially and listen to the press and see what you read on Twitter, you might think he's a bit of a. Uh, you know, a joke or something, a clown, but when you look at what he's actually really done and look a little bit behind that, it's, it is quite, uh, really is quite amazing.

[00:34:24] I agree. Um, so I can understand. Okay. Favorite movie or favorite book? I'm currently reading a book, uh, called, uh, Rimini how do you say this in English at Rimini sense of, of a stock broker? Yeah, it's amazing. Especially like, so, as I told you, I have this trader background, so it's amazing to listen to the stories from this like 1920s, uh, kind of a stock broker and speculator.

[00:34:54] And I think there's many lessons. That can be drawn from, you know, [00:35:00] hundred years ago. That's still apply, uh, in, uh, in the markets today because, uh, you know, the markets don't really change and a favorite movie. Yeah. You know, me, I'm, I'm a bit of a nerd, so, so, you know, I, I just love all the, uh, all the stuff like Lord of the rings and that kind of things.

[00:35:20] Maybe not a very original answer, I answer either, but I really enjoyed kind of seeing the stories of my. Teenage years and childhood, I spent a lot of time with those books and, you know, Saifai and fantasy, all that kind of stuff. Uh, and, and, you know, just seeing those come to life. So that was amazing. And also looking forward to the dune movie, that's now hitting the theaters.

[00:35:47] That's another. Kick ass story to, to watch out for. So I'll be the first, you know, I'll be the first one in the theater to see that one. So thank you very much. [00:36:00] Henry was a pleasure to speak to you. I'll put in the show notes, a, these various links, where can people discover more about, about you, about the company and maybe what's a symbol of the token?

[00:36:10] No, it's true. Murdoch network. Yep. Yeah. And the streamer is spelled in a funny way without the last E in there. So it's just. And then R so stream or, uh, but we say streamer, and there's a funny history actually behind this because when we were really just starting out and we didn't have any money, uh, and we wanted the dotcom for some reason at the time.

[00:36:37] So the streamer with the E in there was already taken, uh, and it would've cost us $10,000 to, to buy that. Domain name. So we went with the streamer, uh, without the, uh, but pronounced the same, but nowadays we don't even use the dot-com address anymore because is kind of more [00:37:00] suitable, I think, for an open source project.

[00:37:03] Well, where else would you have a token, which is data? I think that the assemble the ADA, the ATA or. You'll find it on coin market cap and Gordon gecko and all the sites. We have a pretty, pretty active discord actually. So there's like 6,000 people in there, especially now with the test and that's running, there's a flood of people coming in there.

[00:37:24] So I highly, highly recommend to join and chat with others who are running nodes and building stuff on the, on the technology. Um, and also team members hang out there and are ready to, to help and chat about things. So you can find the link to our discord in our website. Great. Thank you very much, Henry.

[00:37:44] It was a pleasure to speak to thanks a lot. It was very fun.

[00:37:52] There are no advertisements on this podcast, but if you would like to be able to contribute directly to content creators and thus reduce the [00:38:00] importance of sending. Platforms and the importance of advertising the lightening network enables this. The lightening network enables you to stream money by the second for bait for less than 1 cent, no PR system could ever compete with lightening network.

[00:38:15] In order to do this, you need to download a podcast player that allows for payments with lightning. Currently I'm aware of to the breeze wallet, which is a lightening wallet and the podcast player and the fountain app, which is a podcast player that allows streaming upsets. As you do this little by little, you will become comfortable with lightning and you will see how easy it is to you.

[00:38:37] And then little by little, you will see that is the most under appreciated asset in crypto today that probably has the greatest potential to change how we make payments. You can also contribute directly to this podcast by visiting the website, the Swiss road to and contributing there or contributing through one of the two podcast players.

[00:38:56] I mentioned above and streaming fats. As you. [00:39:00] If you'd like to get in contact with me, you can visit the website of the podcast. Website is the swift road to and sign up for the newsletter and send me an email there. If you would like to help other people find this podcast, please leave a review on apple podcast.

[00:39:17] You can do that even if you don't have enough. Go to Google type the Swiss road to crypto crawl down to the bottom of the page and leave a review or give it a five star rating if you so choose that helps other people find the podcast as well.

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